A few days ago, the Western
Mail published an article by Mike Hedges, the Labour MS for Swansea East,
setting out why he thinks independence for Wales is a bad idea. It was based,
as the unionist case almost invariably seems to be, on the idea that Wales ‘can’t
afford’ to be independent, and backed up with some examples of problems
experienced by other countries which attained independence to demonstrate his
point. His selection of examples, and of particular statistics from those
examples, was, of course, highly selective. Nothing wrong with that per se; it
didn’t purport to be an objective academic analysis, and lots of politicians on
all sides of all debates choose their examples and statistics in such a way as
to back their case, whilst ignoring or dismissing those which don’t. Independentistas
do the same.
There are other ways of
looking at the same thing, however. For all the difficulties he identifies for
the examples he has so carefully chosen, how many of those countries said,
after achieving independence, that they’d rather like to give up their
independence and go back to how things were before? It’s a rhetorical question,
of course. Or take another approach. In advance of achieving Welsh
independence, the unionists regularly explain how their analysis of the economy
‘proves’ the impracticability of Welsh independence. But, to ask another
rhetorical question, in how many cases of a country seeking independence has
the state from which it seeks that independence NOT told them that economic
analysis shows it to be impossible? The point is that any economic analysis
which starts from the point of view of ‘what is’ will always show why the
status quo is best – they’re hardly going to say it isn’t, are they?
We could try a little thought
experiment here. Supposing, just for the sake of argument, that Glyndwr’s
rebellion had been a success, that English aggression had been subdued, and
that a rather larger Wales and the two parts of England under the Tripartite Indenture
had lived alongside each other in peace and harmony for the last six centuries.
How would things be different, purely considering economics? It strikes me as
being unlikely that Wales would have allowed its natural resources to be
plundered and the benefit and wealth extracted from the country to anything
like the extent which happened in practice. I somehow doubt that Welsh society
would be dramatically more egalitarian than English society (I’m not convinced
that we’re actually as naturally socialist as I and many others would rather
like to believe), so from the time of the Industrial Revolution, we would
probably have had Welsh capitalists instead of English ones. The wealth would
have flowed to the Welsh capital (Machynlleth initially, or maybe Merthyr after
the establishment of the coal and steel industries) instead of the English
capital. It would, though, largely have remained in Wales, and Wales’ GDP per
head would be higher than it is as a result – probably roughly equivalent to
that in England, even if not shared any more fairly.
Those outcomes would not have
been inevitable, however. History doesn’t work that way. Let us suppose that
the Welsh in general really are as innately stupid and incompetent as so many unionists
would have us believe, and really could not have managed our resources and wealth
any better. It’s a scenario in which the relative wealth and prosperity of
England and Wales end up roughly as they are today, six centuries of
independence having made no difference at all. Does anybody really believe that
there would then be a great clamour from Wales demanding union with England as
the ‘solution’ to the problem of our own mass stupidity? To put the question
another way: if the union had not previously been brought about by military
conquest, would we really invent it voluntarily?
I deliberately simplify, of
course, by reducing it to such a simple question. Other outcomes – some sort of
‘Common Market’, or even ‘Single Market’ between the countries of these islands – look likelier, but any such arrangement would have been based
on equals choosing to co-operate rather than on one imposing its will on the
others. The broader point is that, in considering the question of independence,
we all – unionists and independentistas alike – do so from the
perspective of our own political standpoint. And that standpoint is coloured by
and filtered by our own analysis of actual rather than theoretical history. We’re
not capable of producing an economic analysis of independence without basing
the numbers on a set of assumptions – and those assumptions are not shared. So any
economic arguments produced by Mike Hedges can and will support and validate
his own standpoint (and that of those who think like him) on the question, just
as arguments produced by independentistas will support and validate our
alternative standpoint. Neither group will ever convince the other on that
basis, no matter how hard they try or how rigorous their analysis. And the
truth is that neither group will get it right anyway: an independent Wales
following its own path would fairly quickly demonstrate, whether for external
reasons or simply from following an unpredicted path in terms of policies, that
neither set of assumptions was entirely correct.
We should start from an acceptance
that there are three possible economic outcomes to independence: it makes us
better off, it makes us worse off, or it makes no difference, and there can be
no certainties, only previous examples to guide us. The difference between
those outcomes owes more to the policies implemented by the independent
government than it does to the fact of independence in itself. The question
then comes down to a very simple one – who do we trust most to resolve the
issues facing us, ourselves or someone else? It’s a question which mere
economics can never answer. As I recall, the late Iain McLeod once said, as the
British Empire was busily disintegrating, that people generally prefer
self-government to good government (‘good’ obviously being a synonym for ‘colonial’
in this context, patronising soul that he was). But even a Tory can get
something half right occasionally.
5 comments:
Pleasure to read this post, Borthlas. I think that those of us who favour Indy must recognise the uncertainties and difficulties in going down the Indy path. The answer to "Who do we trust" has to be "ourselves". But this is the bit that's missing. For me the essentials are
(1) know-how. Getting Indy from the Westminster has been done many times, but we do need to learn the moves because they are not taught in school In law-schools, yes. Plus you need an Alexander Hamilton type who really gets trade/money/tax/debt. Like all the STEM subjects, Indy studies are hard.
(2) You need leaders with a kind of cussed gutsiness. They will be un-2023. They will be rare. They will not be perfect humans. We might find such people, but will Wales actually elect them? Noone can be a 100% fan of Israel including its Old Testament history. But Welsh Nationalists used to admire Israel-indy anyway. Israel produced Netanyahu, who is a modern successor of someone like Gideon and not everyone's cup of tea. Effective, though. Shall we try to get Wales to Dominion Status and then think again?
Given that modern day genetics is now showing that almost all people of Britain come from common stock and the Welsh language was the last of the main languages to arrive in this country, there doesn't seem much point in trying to flog the idea of independence because of 'difference'.
Better to show how and why things could be so much better under independent leadership, just as they do in other parts of the UK that are equally keen to separate from the whole.
Anon,
I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. It doesn't need modern day genetics to understand that we are all, ultimately, descended from common ancestors in Africa. The genetics add a lot of interesting detail about how and when human populations reached different parts of the world, and how much they have subsequently mixed, but the idea that we are all of common stock is surely not in doubt. But what has any of that to do with the price of fish?
"...the Welsh language was the last of the main languages to arrive in this country" I don't know what your source for that is, but it's seriously wrong. The Celtic precursors of Welsh arrived well before the Germanic and Latin precursors of English; and all are ultimately descended from Indo-European. But again, what does that have to do with the price of fish?
"... there doesn't seem much point in trying to flog the idea of independence because of 'difference'" I'm not trying to "flog the idea of independence because of 'difference'", and I don't understand why you might think I am. You seem to have started with a preconception of what independentistas believe and then set out to destroy your own straw man; but that also has little to do with the price of fish.
"Better to show how and why things could be so much better under independent leadership" Not sure why you might think that I disagree with that, but the point made in the post is that (in relation to economics at least) is isn't - and can never be - quite as simple as that. All such attempts inevitably have to start from a set of assumptions, and those assumptions depend on opinion rather than on unarguable fact.
'The Celtic precursors of Welsh arrived well before the Germanic and Latin precursors of English; and all are ultimately descended from Indo-European.'
Celts never lived in Britain, nor Ireland for that matter, not never ever. This is why there isn't a Celtic genetic marker in the population. Granted, the Welsh language may have originated with the Celts but it never arrived in Britain until well after Old English. So far as we are aware, Gaelic is the oldest language in this part of the world.
Anon,
Alternative opinions I can cope with; alternative facts rather less so.
"Celts never lived in Britain, nor Ireland" There is no doubt that Celtic culture, along with an early celtic language, reached these islands, although precisely when is a matter of some uncertainty. But it was certainly thousands of years BCE. Whether the change in culture was mirroring a change in population or merely reflects the adoption of new cultures by existing populations is an interesting debate which genetics can help us resolve, but it is ultimately irrelevant to the fact that the Celtic culture was indeed adopted. That culture included languages, and those languages developed over time. However it came about, 'Celtic' languages, from both the Goidelic and Brythonic branches, were the languages used in these islands well before the Romans arrived.
"the Welsh language ... never arrived in Britain until well after Old English" This, I'm afraid, is just nonsense, not least because neither Welsh nor English 'arrived' in these islands at all; they both developed here. Both have reasonable claims to being native developments, albeit in distinct areas. Welsh developed from Brythonic roots and English from Germanic roots. Those Brythonic roots were here thousands of years before the Romans, the Germanic roots arrived with the Vikings, Angles and Saxons after the Romans left (and, again, the question of whether the subsequent language shift was by population displacement or cultural assimilation is an interesting one, but irrelevant to the current context). That is simply historical fact.
The question, though, remains: what has any of this to do with the price of fish? Claiming that 'our' language is older than 'your' language might make for a mildly interesting if pointless argument. But it is utterly irrelevant to any debate about identity or independence, as is any question about the genetic differences in which you seem to be so interested.
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