tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post8516647120934251813..comments2024-03-26T09:38:39.888+00:00Comments on Borthlas: To fly or not to flyJohn Dixonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-35742561824471118992009-01-19T09:35:00.000+00:002009-01-19T09:35:00.000+00:00MH,Thanks for that. I'm not alone in having seen t...MH,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for that. I'm not alone in having seen this as a question of diverting trains - The First Minister referred to diversion very specifically in his <A HREF="http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/welsh-politics/welsh-politics-news/2009/01/14/rhodri-morgan-seeks-fast-rail-link-direct-to-heathrow-91466-22687543/" REL="nofollow"> statement</A> to the media.<BR/><BR/>"So there are considerable benefits to south Wales from extending HS1 to Heathrow."<BR/><BR/>I entirely agree. If it's genuinely part of a scheme to extend HS rail to the west of London, then, as I said in my original post, I'd support the scheme. But the way it has been presented, and the lack of any commitment to anything beyond the hub itself, leaves me concerned that it has more to do with getting people to Heathrow in order to fly than with linking to the High Speed network.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-23328653822188755142009-01-18T14:55:00.000+00:002009-01-18T14:55:00.000+00:00John, there has been, over the years, a variety of...John, there has been, over the years, a variety of different Heathrow rail proposals. So it's easy to get them confused. <BR/><BR/>However the one that is currently on the table is by Arup Associates and involves building a Heathrow Hub ON the current main line to Paddington, with "campus connections" to the three current terminals, and to the new Terminal 6 if built. No trains from South Wales (or SW England for that matter) would need to be diverted, it will be just a matter of whether they stop there or not. Someone has posted diagrams here:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://syniadau.forumotion.net/transport-and-communications-f17/new-high-speed-connections-t92.htm" REL="nofollow">Syniadau</A><BR/><BR/>So there are considerable benefits to south Wales from extending HS1 to Heathrow. I think it's a shame that this should have been offered only as a "sweetener" to make the third runway more environmentally acceptable. But in fact it stands as a scheme in its own right, and also provides the best way of extending the High Speed Rail network beyond London.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-17549304179066451742009-01-16T21:25:00.000+00:002009-01-16T21:25:00.000+00:00I think the idea of going from a fast train to the...I think the idea of going from a fast train to the tube to connect to another line then to go to a "hub" doesn't strike me as a dedicated high speed link....Cibwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621705905770341542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-83366150552148891152009-01-16T16:09:00.000+00:002009-01-16T16:09:00.000+00:00Alwyn,Magic! Diolch yn fawr.Alwyn,<BR/><BR/>Magic! Diolch yn fawr.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-9133467465598300822009-01-16T16:02:00.000+00:002009-01-16T16:02:00.000+00:00To paste proper links into comments use[a href="ht...To paste proper links into comments use<BR/>[a href="http://linkaddress.com"]Link name[/a]<BR/>with angled brackets instead of square onesAlwyn ap Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06194724336424525283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-12107673841968825792009-01-16T15:34:00.000+00:002009-01-16T15:34:00.000+00:00Anon,Thanks for the invitation, but I think I'll p...Anon,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the invitation, but I think I'll pass on the opportunity to have a go at one of my own party's ministers.<BR/><BR/>As far as rail strategy in general is concerned, I have already expressed opinions on the issues here (http://borthlas.blogspot.com/2008/08/dams-and-bridges.html), here (http://borthlas.blogspot.com/2008/11/missing-strategy.html), here (http://borthlas.blogspot.com/2008/11/plans-and-assumptions.html), and here (http://borthlas.blogspot.com/2008/11/misunderestimating-numbers.html).<BR/><BR/>(And one day, I'll work out how to paste proper links into comments).John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-70098584635304170252009-01-16T15:18:00.000+00:002009-01-16T15:18:00.000+00:00Thats your opinion and I respect that, id be inter...Thats your opinion and I respect that, id be interested to know what you think of these plans compared to the un-ambitous rail strategy put forward by the plaid minister who is now in charge of transport in Wales.<BR/><BR/>I dont think his much spun and briefed 'express' train from north to south wales (which actually takes 4.5 hours)really represents any sort of step forward for rail travel in this country.<BR/><BR/>Plaid have a chance to make a real difference...they don't seem to know what to do with the opportunity they've been given.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-50719635730462802502009-01-16T15:04:00.000+00:002009-01-16T15:04:00.000+00:00Anon,"there is already such a tunnel, its called t...Anon,<BR/><BR/><I>"there is already such a tunnel, its called the piccadilly line..."</I><BR/><BR/>And there will (not-so-shortly) be another east-west tunnel called CrossRail. Likely cost around £10bn? <BR/><BR/>The issue as far as I am concerned is not whether it can be done - of course it can. It's whether it will be done (or even whether it's the right way of providing a link to the European high-speed rail network; the option of by-passing central London seems not to have even been considered).<BR/><BR/>My basic point is the one about the political spin in all this - the 'Heathrow hub' is being presented as a high speed link to Europe, whereas, in reality, what is actually on the table today is just about getting people into, and out of, Heathrow.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-2781135579908201962009-01-16T14:11:00.000+00:002009-01-16T14:11:00.000+00:00Ok John, you may not be sure about the geography t...Ok John, you may not be sure about the geography that is fair enough...don't you think that might mean its a little daft to talk about what can or cant be achieved in terms of tunelling under london...i think its an area we should both leave to the experts.<BR/>And FYI there may be an 'awful lot of london' between the knigs cross and st pancras stations and heathrow but there is already such a tunnel, its called the piccadilly line...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-35093259759227406202009-01-16T13:41:00.000+00:002009-01-16T13:41:00.000+00:00Anon,Not sure about the clot part, but happy to be...Anon,<BR/><BR/>Not sure about the clot part, but happy to be corrected on my geography of the big city. We simple country folks...<BR/><BR/>But the point is that King's Cross/ St Pancras serves as the terminus for railway lines which leave London to the East and North, not the West; and there is an awful lot of London between that station and Heathrow. I'm doubtful whether a tunnel can or will be built in addition to the existing CrossRail scheme in order to connect Heathrow with St Pancras. And if I was going to plot a means of connecting Heathrow to the European high speed network, tunnelling under a large part of London doesn't seem to me the most obvious approach.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-20079306763682559852009-01-16T11:37:00.000+00:002009-01-16T11:37:00.000+00:00kings cross/ st pancras isn't on the 'east side' o...kings cross/ st pancras isn't on the 'east side' of london you clot...its smack bang in the centre of london, a little more than half a mile down the road from centre point.<BR/><BR/>I should know i used to live thereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com