tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post682405091466663224..comments2024-03-26T09:38:39.888+00:00Comments on Borthlas: A small step in the right directionJohn Dixonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-42329561835019459822017-10-26T16:16:39.917+01:002017-10-26T16:16:39.917+01:00When you say that you’re not a fan of referendums ...When you say that you’re not a fan of referendums – I know exactly what you mean.<br />If I may add some new points to the DT4R, I would make the following-<br />- No question should be government sponsored, as this sucks in people who are voting against the government and not the question.<br />- Like in Switzerland the question should only come from public petitions.<br />- The general list of voters should not be used, but those interested in the question, should register to vote for that question, when the date is set.<br />I would like to offer my changes to elections so it would be known as the SBMET4E.<br />- Candidates standing for a seat and less than 24% of the constituency turn out, would only sit for one year.<br />- Less than 38%, they sit for two years.<br />- Less than 46%, they sit for three years.<br />- Above 46% they sit for a full term.<br />That would perk things up and empower the local branches.<br />Spirit of BMEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-88655131564693857662017-10-24T15:30:09.250+01:002017-10-24T15:30:09.250+01:00Well, yes, that is the danger with referendums, a ...Well, yes, that is the danger with referendums, a device of which I am not a huge fan, and which in my view should have only a limited role in a parliamentary democracy, restricted to situations where there is a clear binary choice, the implications of both outcomes of which are well-known. Sadly, that's not always the way in which they've been used. They are, rather, called by politicians who can't agree amongst themselves within their own party and use the idea of 'direct democracy' to solve their own internal disputes. <br /><br /><i>"Begs more questions, what determines “clear” .5% 1%,10% 25% and sustained evidence, is that over a month, six months or a few years, before the machinery goes to work?"</i> I entirely accept the point that there is no objective definition of the words 'clear and sustained' which can easily be applied. Opinion polls, elections etc can all give an indication, but if the general expectation were to be that the result would be little different, then the 'test' such as it is, fails. Clearly, the mere fact that someone doesn't like the decision is not an adequate reason for asking people to vote again; there has to be some indication that people have changed their minds. I haven't attempted to give a precise definition of that, but I'm sure that it's not beyond even the limited capacity of our legislators to arrive at criteria for assessing whether there's been a change in opinion or not. And in the context in which I wrote this post, the absence of a deal does not, of itself, provide adequate reason for a new vote without some sort of evidence that it might be rejected - otherwise it's just a cop-out by politicians afraid to take a decision themselves.<br /><br /><i>"The Dixon Test for Referendums (DT4R) will I assume apply to all past referendum decisions and not the ones you are not happy with, therefore the establishment of the Assembly at Collaborator’s Cove will I am sure be raised, as this much unloved body or is it the people that make a handsome living that are unloved?"</i> Well, again, yes. I cannot argue that the people have the right to change their mind on one decision, but not on another, so it isn't only decisions that I don't like that are open to being revisited. I think that in this latter case there's rather more evidence at present that a referendum would affirm rather than reverse the decision, and that evidence as things stand would be reason to reject a repeat vote. But who can tell what movements in opinion will take place in the future?<br /><br />There is an underlying point here which is worth making. If the future of the country (whether Wales or the UK in this context) is to be put to the people in a vote, it's important that those arguing for one outcome or the other don't treat it as a matter purely of winning or losing, whatever venal means they have to use to get that result (which is the way many of them seem to treat elections). It should, rather, be about winning hearts and minds for a particular vision of the future. The absence of that was the problem with the vote for the establishment of the Assembly and the vote for Brexit - whilst in both referendums there were some who voted from conviction about the future, there were others who treated it more as a short term transactional issue - and they were encouraged in that view by short termist politicians.<br /><br />When the day comes for Wales to become independent, I want it to be a decision which we take collectively and confidently; a positive decision for the long term future. That means winning people over to the concept - a task which has been given minimal attention over the past two decades.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-76956084651147837882017-10-24T14:54:06.137+01:002017-10-24T14:54:06.137+01:00Interesting idea to get another chance to get the ...Interesting idea to get another chance to get the right decision, but your cunning plan,<br />“but whether there is clear and sustained evidence of a shift in public opinion”.<br />Begs more questions, what determines “clear” .5% 1%,10%25% and sustained evidence, is that over a month, six months or a few years, before the machinery goes to work?<br />The Dixon Test for Referendums (DT4R) will I assume apply to all past referendum decisions and not the ones you are not happy with, therefore the establishment of the Assembly at Collaborator’s Cove will I am sure be raised, as this much unloved body or is it the people that make a handsome living that are unloved? The majority for this decision was wafer thin compared to the European result.<br /> The DT4R would be great fun, but would make running these events a stress plus operation.<br />One strange thing is that the Liberals have been more “honest” on this issue, but I simply cannot understand why they are not calling a referendum on the Welsh Assembly? <br />Spirit of BMEnoreply@blogger.com