tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post7311757176324549632..comments2024-03-26T09:38:39.888+00:00Comments on Borthlas: Killer arguments and estimated numbersJohn Dixonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-27307457380981409742022-10-03T19:29:04.232+01:002022-10-03T19:29:04.232+01:00I like the way you and CapM try and work out how h...I like the way you and CapM try and work out how head, heart and facts motivate Welsh voters. You have both though about this a lot, but the Welsh psychology is elusive. <br />Welsh head - should be OK with Doyle type facts, but don't bet on it. Too many like fluffy statecraft (virtue signalling about the climate, diversity). I can't think of any Welsh person who can hold a candle to the people who got Indy for the US colonies, Ireland and others, which was never easy, in fact damned hard. <br />Welsh heart - will support a Welsh team. But lacks the English heart or gut-instinct which drives them to (a) unite, and (b) put the head down and charge for Brexit = Indy for them. <br />Facts - don't get you very far with head or heart in Wales.<br />I wonder if he real problem in Wales is infantile fear. Of losing the familiarity/security they have with the Westminster 'insurance policy'. It'll take a lot of head+heart and facts to get the Welsh to grow up and fend for themselves. Apart from anything else the zietgeist is just not right. The self-sufficient lot went to London, US or other colonies ages ago. <br />I will keep banging away though........Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937342201811857738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-39403577947950287182022-10-03T17:56:46.114+01:002022-10-03T17:56:46.114+01:00Assuming that such reports, in isolation are going...<br />Assuming that such reports, in isolation are going to win the argument for us would indeed be naive.<br />But I think they have their place, in particular shifting the ground <br />from - independence is not possible for Cymru, therefore for us the Union it must be.<br />to - independence is possible for Cymru, therefore there's a choice for us to make.<br /><br />This appears to have happened to such an extent in Scotland that even many Unionists (and most Unionist politicians) are now loathe to say that Scotland couldn't make it on it's own. However I've no idea how much of that shift is due to reports and the figures they contain. <br />CapMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-22060907693399720122022-10-03T15:55:15.305+01:002022-10-03T15:55:15.305+01:00Reports are useful insofar as they offer an analys...Reports are useful insofar as they offer an analysis based on data. That data could include some quantifications of a) where we are now and how that revenue and cost base is accumulated and apportioned, and b) where we might want to be, perhaps in discreet stages. <br /><br />Tories will almost always err on the side of the worst case scenario as they are wedded to the sanctity of the Union and all its costly trappings.For instance,they cannot bear the thought that Wales might run a Defence Force without all the pageantry that seems to hand in hand with the British Armed Forces. One goat should suffice for ceremonial and no fancy uniforms just best on duty kit. And all those embassies is just bollox in these times of secure comms with occasional visits and meetings to deal with serious stuff. We might even halve the ministerial population although Welsh Labour would fight hard to hang on to some of those relics. dafishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04216920242825385976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-47051217065386804722022-10-03T13:23:06.625+01:002022-10-03T13:23:06.625+01:00I hope that it didn't look like an argument th...I hope that it didn't look like an argument that we don't need such reports at all - that was not my intention. But assuming that such reports are going to win the argument would be naive, because many of those arguing that 'we can't afford it' are being less than honest about their true motivation.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-66719014181956975032022-10-03T13:14:15.124+01:002022-10-03T13:14:15.124+01:00I appreciate your point and it's importance.
...I appreciate your point and it's importance.<br /><br />I think we need such reports and others focusing on how eg health education social care, etc etc are impacted by Cymru being part of the UK rather than being independent.<br />I don't think independence can be brought about by appealing to the "heart" of the masses alone no matter how intellectually robust, logical the argument is.<br /><br />Arguments that appeal to the "head" are needed. Of course those that are against independence will rubbish any figures they don't like but the availability of such figures and research provide potential supporters of independence with windows onto a Cymru that could be. And those that like what they see will be able to use those figures and research to justify their change of opinion, defend it and advocate it to others. <br /><br />Also such figures and research contribute to the acceptance of the idea even amongst unionists that Cymru is capable of being independent. CapMnoreply@blogger.com