tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post6570002890986776794..comments2024-03-26T09:38:39.888+00:00Comments on Borthlas: Pseudo-legalistic bunkumJohn Dixonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-46628639716319213922012-09-20T11:00:04.539+01:002012-09-20T11:00:04.539+01:00I think honestly we will have to wait and see. But...I think honestly we will have to wait and see. But the EU is not going to want to lose Scotland (or indeed the remainder of the UK). The EU is an expansionist organisation. It will bend over backwards to accommodate Scotland. An injection of democracy might also be what the EU needs. For too long the key decision-makers in the big states have had an arrogant view of Spain's integrity for example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-12600714760839010332012-09-20T07:49:57.859+01:002012-09-20T07:49:57.859+01:00Anon,
I agree; it's basically the point that ...Anon,<br /><br />I agree; it's basically the point that I was making in the original post. The precise legal situation is open to debate and dispute, and will remain thus until tested.<br /><br /><i>"Secession from, or the break-up of, an EU member state is unprecedented."</i><br /><br />That's entirely true, of course. Currently, it rather looks as though Belgium might turn out to be the trail-blazer here.<br /><br />Personally, I'm convinced that political reality would ultimately outweigh the legal considerations; the other member states would accept the democratic decision of the people, and a sensible solution would emerge which matches their aspirations. Given the EU's recent history, there has to be a presumption in favour of enlargement (even if that's 'internal enlargement') rather than expulsion, although a lot of hot air might well be expended before getting to that point.<br /><br />Having said all that, my real point was that trying to respond to a growing demand for independence in Scotland with legalistic arguments rather than debating the substance seems to be a pretty silly unionist response.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-32148161361111199912012-09-19T20:52:38.733+01:002012-09-19T20:52:38.733+01:00The latest comment on this theme came not from Lab...The latest comment on this theme came not from Labour politicians but EU Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso, who was reported in 'The Guardian' as suggesting that any state seceding from a member state would not automatically be a member of the EU. <br /><br />On the one hand, the SNP argues that the UK would be dissolved by Scottish independence, and Scotland would be classed as a successor state automatically inheriting the UK's rights under international law. On the other hand, unionists argue that Scotland would secede on a similar basis to the Irish Free State in 1922: the UK would continue to exist in international law, albeit in truncated form. You pays your money and you takes your choice.<br /><br />Secession from, or the break-up of, an EU member state is unprecedented. The possible fallout is so legally and politically complex and open to interpretation that most comment is pure - and usually partisan - speculation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-3141060812249676872012-09-15T11:07:19.398+01:002012-09-15T11:07:19.398+01:00The Bilderberg group consist of influential people...The Bilderberg group consist of influential people who meet in secret. They come from government, politics, finance, industry, labour, education & communications to plan/conspire for a world government. Check them out on wikipedia together with Trilateral Commission.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-56475586843142908832012-09-14T16:28:18.453+01:002012-09-14T16:28:18.453+01:00What's the Bilderberg group and what's it ...What's the Bilderberg group and what's it got to do with this blog? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-74164894696081542322012-09-14T16:22:02.761+01:002012-09-14T16:22:02.761+01:00John; I normally would only respond to your posts ...John; I normally would only respond to your posts but I'm appalled by what Anonymous reveals. <br />Anonymous states that some politicians are arguing that neither Wales nor Scotland can have independence because the Spanish won't allow it. What has happened? Is this what membership of the EU means? The will of the people must not upset Spain?<br />How can anyone, with any notion of the history and struggles of the people of the island of Britain accept that Spain must determine our future? <br />I don't suppose anyone has used the word "Spain" so many times in one post, but John! for God's sake, Spain? Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02199538597477712978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-35984578900647304452012-09-14T12:34:49.137+01:002012-09-14T12:34:49.137+01:00Looks like the hand of The Bilderberg Group is inv...Looks like the hand of The Bilderberg Group is involved in this!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-56780736548376953012012-09-14T10:35:51.397+01:002012-09-14T10:35:51.397+01:00Good point John. The pseudo legal argument is big ...Good point John. The pseudo legal argument is big in Spain. As if constitutions are written by god and can't be changed.<br /><br />It's peculiar, to say the least, to hear Spanish policitians and Labour politicians in Wales such as Glenys Kinnock and Eluned Morgan, claim Wales couldn't have independence because the Spanish won't allow it. And the Spanish won't allow it because it's against their constitution.<br /><br />Peculiar as the left wing have consistantly changed the constition on other matters - women's rights, gay rights, secularisation of society etc. So, changing the constitution on somethings is OK, but legally impossible in others.<br /><br />There's also ETA's old argument which is the Spanish state would never allow the Basques to delcair independence. In this repsect ETA were partly right as the Spanish constution does charge the military with keeping the integrity of the state. The Spanish have also refused the Basques the right to hold a referendum - even a watered down one such as Ibarretxe's 'free association' plan a few years ago.<br /><br />However, the Spanish were able to paint the Basques as hot-headed extremists, tarring every person in favour of independence (including Ibarrexte, of the Basque PNV party - a kind of SDLP in Northern Irish terms) as a supporter of ETA.<br /><br />They can't do that with the Catalans because they are so obviously 'boring' and 'sensible' - in fact, that is their image within Spain.<br /><br />In the end, as you say, John, the Spanish state can't stop a nation demanding a referendum on independence and recognising it. If they do they will have proven ETA right, but, more importantly they will have gone against the democratic will of a nation with pre-dates the emergence of the state. <br /><br />It's the end of 'Spain' as a unified state, but not the end of the Spanish language, or Spanish football team, or Spanish culture. Spain will just be a smaller state. But Europe will be enriched with two or three new states - Catalonia, Basques and Galicia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com