tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post5170139075168735699..comments2024-03-26T09:38:39.888+00:00Comments on Borthlas: What does 'anti-Welsh' mean?John Dixonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-29488253296253537462011-08-08T14:33:33.457+01:002011-08-08T14:33:33.457+01:00I agree with Siônnyn that polarisation is unhelpfu...I agree with Siônnyn that polarisation is unhelpful. There are, as you say, an active and vocal cadre who hate the Welsh language, and would love to see it die tomorrow. But I'm convinced that they are a small and shrinking group - vehemence can sometimes run in inverse proportion to the strength of the argument. By allowing ourselves to rise to the bait, and getting involved in responding to people who will never come round to an alternative way of thinking, we do more harm than good. I am convinced that the argument of principle - i.e. that Welsh should be encouraged to grow and be used in an increasing number of contexts - has been won. The debate now is surely about how, where, and when - responding to the fringe is a diversion from the task of working with the majority to agree on the way forward.<br /><br />Stuart's idea is one that worries me, and not just for the wholly reasonable responses from Olde Boar and Andrew that it can look like treating those who do not speak Welsh as foreigners. Like it or not, we have to accept that there are two languages in Wales, and those who only speak one of them are no less Welsh for that. Being 'Welsh' means lots of different things to different people. Certainly, if services are to be provided to people in the language of choice, then there are going to be some jobs - in all parts of Wales - which will require Welsh speakers to carry them out. But I really don't think we can declare that, on a geographical basis, all jobs in some areas have that requirement.<br /><br />Both Dave and Cymro i'r Carn made valid points about the reluctance of public authorities in Wales - in this case, two county councils - to be more pro-active about embracing the language and using it more fully. I agree. And asking anyone speaking in Welsh to provide their own translation after the event is a way of ramming home forcefully that, in that particular context, Welsh is the inferior language.<br /><br />The way forward is surely to harness and work with the undoubted good will that exists; but to do that, we need to stop behaving and talking as though anyone who doesn't agree with us about any specific proposal is ergo facto anti-Welsh. They're usually not, and need to be persuaded, not abused.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-65016969841215426082011-08-08T09:27:04.151+01:002011-08-08T09:27:04.151+01:00Andrew - your treatment was inexcusable, and not t...Andrew - your treatment was inexcusable, and not typical of what I have observed, having worked as a full time teacher, and as a supply teacher more recently, in Welsh medium schools in South Wales. It is a credit to you that you have not allowed your experience to sour your views of the language and of Welsh speakers.Siônnynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00021974709953206048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-61713946798780585392011-08-07T16:33:04.495+01:002011-08-07T16:33:04.495+01:00I agree with The Olde Boar. I am an English speaki...I agree with The Olde Boar. I am an English speaking 'Welshman' and used to work in a Welsh medium High School in Cardiff as a cleaner.<br /><br />Alot of the teachers there were very cold and even damn right hostile towards me on times because I didn't speak Welsh.<br /><br />Calling me English or foreigner. I am not English and I am not a foreigner in my own country, I am Welsh. Just because I don't speak Welsh doesn't make me any less patriotic than the next Welshman or make me Anti-Welsh.<br /><br />It's attitudes such as that that are pushing undecided people away.<br /><br />I love Wales and the Welsh language, I think it's a beautiful language and needs to be cared for, nurtured and promoted by everyone in Wales.<br /><br />These devisions need to stop.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-34566338083572953752011-08-06T14:48:51.421+01:002011-08-06T14:48:51.421+01:00I agree with Stuart in principle for a local appro...I agree with Stuart in principle for a local approach to the language (hiring people in areas where there is a Welsh speaking majority to be Welsh speaking or at least learning the language). However am I as a English speaking Welshman a "Foreigner"?<br />"It will help keep jobs local and force foreigners to integrate."the Blog what I Wrote https://www.blogger.com/profile/11201806049299435867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-49640966668143820742011-08-06T08:07:50.957+01:002011-08-06T08:07:50.957+01:00John, I agree that there is a tendency amongst cul...John, I agree that there is a tendency amongst cultural nationalists to polarise people - if you are not for us you are against us - and that immediately alienates the undecided majority, so it has to stop. <br /><br />There exists a very small, but very active and vocal cadre of vehement Welsh haters, however, as you will see from the pages of the WM, on the comment sections of their articles, on Betsan, and on other blogs (I'm sure you have plenty trying to disrupt your fine medium) , and these people presume to speak for the 'silent majority', trying to force us into a ghetto mentality that sees us lashing out wildly in an attempt to defend what is dear to us. To some extent they have succeeded, and we push people that we could have won over into siding with the forces of darkness. We have a lot to learn.Siônnynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00021974709953206048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-88344556284691961952011-08-05T14:00:08.739+01:002011-08-05T14:00:08.739+01:00John
The status of welsh is clearly one that needs...John<br />The status of welsh is clearly one that needs a more balanced debate and your post is a good start.<br />Welsh speakers are often their own worst enemies by immediately switching to english if only one member of a group is non welsh speaking rather than persisting with welsh and offering a precis when necessary. <br />When I went to live in North Wales some years ago I was shocked to find in places like Porthmadog many shops reverted to an all english policy during the summer not to inconvenience the tourists.<br /><br />As other contributors have stated local government, all over Wales,<br />does not seem comfortable with using welsh in its formal settings. Here in Pembrokeshire,with a welsh speaking Leader, the County council standing orders require any member speaking in welsh to provide an english translation themselves after they finish.Clearly, this inhibits the use of the language. <br /> I complained about this to the Welsh language Board but they replied that they had no problem with this rule. If we cannot rely on the WLB to support the use of the language where do we turn?Dave Edwardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-55245252670776887352011-08-04T12:29:00.519+01:002011-08-04T12:29:00.519+01:00How about imposing a law that states that in any c...How about imposing a law that states that in any county where Welsh speakers total at least 50% (to begin with) then all new public sector jobs have to be filled with staff who are bilingual.<br /><br />Be it a bin man or a chief inspector.<br /><br />It will help keep jobs local and force foreigners to integrate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11475962539522399975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-71146793032886201972011-08-04T11:51:03.126+01:002011-08-04T11:51:03.126+01:00JOhn, you make for good reading with this article ...JOhn, you make for good reading with this article and highlight the complications behind language and confidence, may I suggest however that as Menai as said it all comes from political direction. <br /><br />For example as you've been working and live and witness the carmarthen area you will know all to well that for example in the county council chamber there is very little use of Welsh. <br /><br />Let's question why? Many believe it's because some members whom do not speak Welsh refust to put the headphones on and listen to the translation thus completely ignoring the speaker just because he or she has decided to speak Welsh (you see this all to often by some Independent members). This then send the message speak Welsh and you don't get heard fully, speak English and people will listen. Surly the attitude of these individuals whom are putting pressure and are hampering the use of Welsh ought to be discussed and pubilicly shamed, i.e 'name calling'. <br /><br />Carmarthenshire within the next census IMO will drop below the 50% thresh-hold of those whom can speak Welsh, in areas where over 70% of the population speak Welsh only some 30% are receiving their secondary education in Welsh. <br /><br />Im afraid Carmarthenshire County council has histroicaly had a very anglicized attitude and it's this attitude that is one of the main factors killing Welsh in Carmarthenshire. Call me pessimistic but I see it all to often, with umpteen shortcomings in bilingual services. Welsh is regarded as something extra, a pet if you like not to be used in real life situations and I attribute this to the Independent and Labour domination of the county council during the past decades. <br /><br />Plaid Cymru also do not hold the best record in carmarthenshire, giving way to much when they were also in coalition with the Independents. To much influential charachters directly hampering the use of Welsh in an area so important to the revitalisation of Welsh, if you cannot revive the langauge here, is there much hope for the Vale of Glamorgan and such areas?<br /><br />The council should lead by Gwynedd's example, only then will Welsh have a brighter future in Carmarthenshire.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-30217741948459126762011-08-04T11:34:17.288+01:002011-08-04T11:34:17.288+01:00A perceptive and important post. Too often, cultur...A perceptive and important post. Too often, cultural nationalists opt for a default black and white picture when it comes to the language, without considering the nuances involved in language use in different settings. We need to think more about the grey areas, in the middle and the peope who inhabit these grey areas, and come up with some new ideas how to promote and encourage language use here. One idea maybe could be to set up a non-political Balchder Cymraeg/Pride in Welsh campaign to encourage more people to make use of the Welsh they have, and enable them to do so in different settings.Aled G Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-74534834791335867612011-08-04T10:42:23.537+01:002011-08-04T10:42:23.537+01:00menaiblog,
Fair comment. I do tend to have, perh...menaiblog,<br /><br />Fair comment. I do tend to have, perhaps, something of a bias towards what I see locally in and around Carmarthen, albeit coloured by my own non-Welsh-speaking background in the Vale of Glamorgan.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-76378060082447181002011-08-04T10:32:59.453+01:002011-08-04T10:32:59.453+01:00There's a geographic aspect to this too John -...There's a geographic aspect to this too John - in some parts of the country it's generally accepted that Welsh is the main language of formal communication (at a political level anyway), so Welsh is used in council meetings & so on by virtually everyone who's capable of using it.<br /><br />In other areas it's accepted by many that English has precedence in such situations, & many don't use it for that reason. <br /><br />It's a reflection of local cultural attitudes.Cai Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15349645242691098245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-52635935990517265262011-08-04T10:19:47.343+01:002011-08-04T10:19:47.343+01:00Excellent post John.Excellent post John.Democritushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06749137742833103823noreply@blogger.com