tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post1861032890180172184..comments2024-03-26T09:38:39.888+00:00Comments on Borthlas: Poles and trenchesJohn Dixonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-69848447139399391962014-03-26T04:25:09.916+00:002014-03-26T04:25:09.916+00:00Whenever there is a debate about energy production...Whenever there is a debate about energy production and the need for more, or less, electricity, no one seems to mention the Elephant in the closet. Without electricity Nuclear power plants would go into meltdown. We are caught in a trap of our own making, we have to produce more electricity to keep the power plants that produce electricity stable.<br />That is a use of power that is not going anywhere.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02199538597477712978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-68762441107924328822014-03-25T16:52:36.912+00:002014-03-25T16:52:36.912+00:00John and Anon
Take a look at green hydrogenJohn and Anon<br /><br /> <br /><br />Take a look at green hydrogenG Horton-Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-15434145405249109582014-03-25T08:42:09.000+00:002014-03-25T08:42:09.000+00:00Without needing to get into such specific proposal...Without needing to get into such specific proposals as turning off lights and equipment, I'll just say that I agree completely that there are a lot of things that we can do to reduce the demand for electricity, and demand reduction ought to be a key plank in any energy policy.<br /><br />However, another key plank is that whatever energy we do use should be as 'green' as we can make it. That means, in effect, replacing fossil fuels with renewables (again, we could argue about the detail of which renewables and how much of each, but in this context, that's "just" detail). One of the effects of switching from fossil fuels to renewables is that the proportion of energy <b>at the point of use</b> which is represented by electricity (either directly or through a conversion technology such as fuel cells) actually increases.<br /><br />So, even if there is a great deal that we can do to reduce total energy consumption, the requirement for energy in the form of electricity will still increase overall, as it replaces other fuels in fields such as transport.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-6947370697804560682014-03-25T08:30:41.373+00:002014-03-25T08:30:41.373+00:00Okay, firstly, let's start with reducing the n...Okay, firstly, let's start with reducing the need for 'so much' supply.<br /><br />In countries like Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Japan the office lights go off at night. But not just the lights, all non-essential stand-by items such as computers, phones and so on.<br /><br />Let's start by asking why this isn't done here. Do we need to 'artificially' increase the price of electricity at night just to change our intractable way of thinking? Or are there really good reasons why we cannot follow suite?<br /><br />Surely you must have asked this question before. What is the answer? And is the answer truly plausible?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-19699070489607906092014-03-25T07:30:47.774+00:002014-03-25T07:30:47.774+00:00Of course it is possible to generate electricity m...Of course it is possible to generate electricity much closer to the point of use, but short of each point of use having its own generation capability, the points of use still need to connect to the points of generation. And the more diffuse the generation capacity, the less resilience in the system, unless you include a network (which we might choose to call a 'grid'). And if we want to us renewables, then the generation capacity has to be where the energy source is. That's true for wind, but even more obviously true for tidal power. There are some promising new technologies around coatings on roofs, walls, and windows, but we're a long way off being able to deploy them (including retro-fitting) on a scale which turns every building into a generator - and even then, you don't eliminate the resilience issue.<br /><br />Ask all the questions you like, but if you know of a way of continuing to provide a resilient electricity supply, generating it from clean renewable sources, and not having to transport it from point of generation to point of use, then I'd like to hear it.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-37217297857115695312014-03-24T17:34:36.576+00:002014-03-24T17:34:36.576+00:00By all means generate electricity. Generate as muc...By all means generate electricity. Generate as much as you want. Just make sure the generation is in the places where the electricity is needed.<br /><br />Someone has told you that we need to generate in point a and supply point b, point b being some distance away from point a. You should have asked why. And then you should have asked again. And each time you ask you'll find that you'll get closer to the answer ......<br /><br />Things only improve when people start to ask questions. Recent examples, the heath service, education, pot hole repairs and so on.<br /><br />Start asking questions. And keep asking them!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-81773656697923313322014-03-24T13:57:24.179+00:002014-03-24T13:57:24.179+00:00Anon,
I don't think we actually agreed any su...Anon,<br /><br />I don't think we actually agreed any such thing...<br /><br />Of course, if we didn't need to carry electricity from point a to point b, we wouldn't need overhead cables. But then, neither would we need trenches... And we certainly wouldn't want to pay six times as much for something we didn't need.<br /><br />Using less electricity would be good, but short of using no electricity, we'd still need to produce it somewhere. And even if I got out a lot more, I somehow don't think we'd get away from the need to carry electricity from point of generation to point of use.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-23939011265071883142014-03-24T13:41:33.368+00:002014-03-24T13:41:33.368+00:00Thanks for the reply.
I thought we'd agree la...Thanks for the reply.<br /><br />I thought we'd agree last week that 'less is more'.<br /><br />Why bother carrying so much electricity from one place to another. Either carry less, produce more elsewhere or have a requirement for less.<br /><br />Same old thinking always leads to the same old problems. You need to get out a bit more!<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-68628691328066479982014-03-24T13:26:07.637+00:002014-03-24T13:26:07.637+00:00Anon 1,
The extent to which that justifies the hu...Anon 1,<br /><br />The extent to which that justifies the huge amount of extra cost surely depends on frequency of occurrence and potential impact? thee are a lot of issues involved in making such judgements, but it is likely that the impact of a line break from a single point of generation into the grid will actually be less that the impact of a broken line closer to the point of consumption.<br /><br />Anon 2,<br /><br />The word 'always' has a certain significance here, particularly when there is an inherent contradiction between two or more options. This list of things that you quote have no inherent contradictions, but the example that I was referring to does - specifically, keeping the price of electricity low whilst choosing the most expensive way of carrying it from one place to another.<br />John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-76081833964659645512014-03-24T11:27:58.974+00:002014-03-24T11:27:58.974+00:00I want a prosperous Wales with no poor people and ...I want a prosperous Wales with no poor people and a good health service. But I also want my children to have a good education system and I want their qualifications to be internationally recognised. We can't always have everything we want.<br /><br />Why not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-1707404155204362312014-03-24T11:03:47.702+00:002014-03-24T11:03:47.702+00:00One obvious need for a trench is in winter, when t...One obvious need for a trench is in winter, when the weight of ice on the overhead wires is so great that the line breaks, brining into operation the transfer of workers from Scotland (currently part of UK) to do the repair work, and the inconvience to households and business without power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com