tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post1519688927335726615..comments2024-03-02T10:38:04.108+00:00Comments on Borthlas: Wrong, wrong, and wrong againJohn Dixonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-38061127936905928902010-03-02T08:55:07.477+00:002010-03-02T08:55:07.477+00:00Adam,
I understand. But I might be tempted to con...Adam,<br /><br />I understand. But I might be tempted to conclude therefore that it's just a conference speech aimed at the faithful rather than a serious suggestion...<br /><br />Dave,<br /><br />That would indeed be the logical outcome of his stance. But if you asked him what to do in any constituency anywhere in the UK, I think he would say 'vote Labour', even if the result of that might be the election of a Tory.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-15880071209261366592010-03-02T08:25:03.822+00:002010-03-02T08:25:03.822+00:00As a Labour Nationalist, Hain's comments , par...As a Labour Nationalist, Hain's comments , particularly the illogicality of his basic premise fill me with despair. If he is suggesting that an anti tory vote is the first priority,then I am in full agreement but he must realise that in some constituencies his arguement will lead to difficult choices for Labour as well as others. The logical consequence of his stance would be to provide a seat by seat voting guide to the large anti Tory majority in Wales .<br />It would be interesting to see his advice in CW&SP!Dave Edwardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-72559268660614853932010-03-01T22:22:43.421+00:002010-03-01T22:22:43.421+00:00"it would surely have been better, presentati..."it would surely have been better, presentationally at least, to appear a little more even-handed?"<br /><br />I'm sure that's so. But at Welsh Labour's conference, maybe not :-)Adam Higgitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08404979957698536334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-25220846750054683772010-03-01T17:49:45.374+00:002010-03-01T17:49:45.374+00:00Mr Dixon,
You have it one.
This Peter Pain man got...Mr Dixon,<br />You have it one.<br />This Peter Pain man got stuck on the Marr show when Little Andy Marr reversed the argument.Nuff said.Spirit of BMEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-81073774095023553812010-03-01T16:45:12.787+00:002010-03-01T16:45:12.787+00:00Hain doesn't want to build a consensus that pr...Hain doesn't want to build a consensus that promotes progressive politics. He wants to build a consensus that promotes the Labour party. And there's alot in their record that conflicts with progressive aims.<br /><br />The One Wales coalition, however you look at it, presents a platform of solidly left-of-centre policies. Yet Hain was well-known to be against that coalition and even ruled it out! We should expect nothing less of him and to be frank, it is a good anti-Tory strategy even if it is incredibly negative.<br /><br />I'd dispute the notional point on Aberconwy. Arfon is a notional Labour seat, for example. It's meaningless.Illtyd Lukenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-54320650560692071332010-03-01T13:08:42.964+00:002010-03-01T13:08:42.964+00:00Terence,
I very rarely decline to publish comment...Terence,<br /><br />I very rarely decline to publish comments, but your comment was very much a case of playing the man, rather than debating the issue. <br /><br />You're welcome to comment on the subject matter of the post, of course. But if you're going to comment on Hain or anyone else, please try and keep it within the bounds of reasonable debate rather than personal attack.John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-15999497143074888242010-03-01T13:03:07.319+00:002010-03-01T13:03:07.319+00:00Adam,
Even if the traffic would be pretty much on...Adam,<br /><br />Even if the traffic would be pretty much one way in Wales (and I'm not convinced about that - I think that Aberconwy is pretty much a Tory-Plaid battle in most people's eyes, whatever the 'notional' majority might say), it would surely have been better, presentationally at least, to appear a little more even-handed?John Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07447224248021209852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4411161795798360588.post-23543293671508998972010-03-01T12:55:19.814+00:002010-03-01T12:55:19.814+00:00A good argument. I guess much depends on where you...A good argument. I guess much depends on where you imagine Hain to be coming from. If you think he his saying to other non-Conservatives "we together form some sort of loosely defined progressive front that share a number of values such that we could lend each other our votes in certain places" then the one-way street argument is wrong.<br /><br />If, on the other hand, you think he's saying "non-Labour progressives: lend us your vote to keep the Tories out because they are less progressive than us", then the traffic is fairly one-way, at least in Wales.<br /><br />But as you say, if Labour really really wanted to allow the voters to elaborate on their choices, they'd reform the voting system. Belatedly, that's underway.Adam Higgitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08404979957698536334noreply@blogger.com